Panther 1935 Model 50. 3. The Search for Parts

Naturally with a machine in this condition and of this age there are a lot of parts to find and usually they do not readily come to light. I have been playing with Panthers for almost 40 years and in my time have owned many of the different models from a 1921 500 to a 1962 Panther Princess Scooter so I have collected a pile of odds and ends. These are not catalogued or organised so I have had to search through the junk to see what I had that could be of use on this project.

Since finding replacement Model 50 flywheels seemed unlikely, I decided to rebuild the engine as a 600cc. I had owned a 1933 M100 so there was a good chance I still had some suitable bits laying around. I had good dig in my jumble of parts and this produced an early barrel of standard size in usable condition. These barrels have a small upstanding top lip, unlike the later ones which have a large flat for the copper gasket. I also found a standard slipper piston, some suitable rings, a cylinder head which would fit the rocker box supplied with the bike and a suitable conrod. My stock of Model 100 taper fit flywheels appeared to be a pile of mixed pairs with balance holes all over the place. I decided to use the pair I took from the engine of the Wreck, the subject of a former blog, knowing that they had run together. These were very rusty having lain in water for 25 years but being made of cast iron the rust is only on the surface so they should clean up well and are uncracked. 

Flywheels from the Wreck before cleaning.

Other parts came to light; the large top engine hanger, a rear brake lever. the dynamo drive sprocket rings for the magneto drive, a dynamo sprocket, valves, springs and the collet fittings, suitable push rod ends (no pushrods), some worn tappets, the tappet block and pushrod tube, a carburetter, a pair of crankshaft roller bearings and a new big end missing its outer race, steering head races, an eight inch headlight and all the parts for a clutch. All of this stuff needs work naturally but other parts may surface in the fullness of time.

Correct head

M 100 Barrel and Slipper Piston

Original ring set.

Push rod tube, carb, brake lever, U-bolt saddles,
top engine mounting.

Dynamo spacer, (cast by Sherb), conrod, cams, push rod ends.

Clutch parts

8 inch headlight

I then turned to the POC Spares Department, that excellent service available to all Panther Owners Club members. Anticipating a problem with stretched tapers in the old flywheels I bought a big end with slightly oversize tapers. Spares Secretary Ian Fox turned up with the short engine top hanger; it is different to later ones as it fits on the U-bolt and not on a pair of bolts at wider centres on the rocker box. He also produced a rear stand, a pair of refurbished cam followers (on exchange) and the chain cover for the dynamo drive. Rex dropped by with a front mudguard with the correct long trappings that clear the Webb forks.

Refurbed cam followers, small top engine mounting, big end,
dynamo chain cover, dynamo mounting strap.

Rear Stand.

 On Ebay I found a pair of remanufactured top fork links to replace the home made ones and a set of hardened washers for the spindles. A visit to the local Metal Supermarket produced a length of half inch diameter EN24 bar to make a set of fork spindles.

Head races, new fork links and washers

As I was in the throws of making a chainguard for the Model 70 I made a second one for this project, then I measured up the battery support on my 1936 M100 and made one of those too.

New Chainguard

Battery support

A photo appeared on the Panther Facebook posted by Markus Orth of an aftermarket speedo drive running from a large gear on the front wheel. I had the large gear, and low and behold, I have had the rest of the drive in a cupboard for years; at last a use for it.

Markus Orth's speedo drive

Speedo drive gearbox and Smiths MA Speedo

This collection of parts took a serious turn when I posted photos of this project on the Panther Facebook page along with an appeal for parts, particularly a gearbox. This should be a  Burman BAPH with front and bottom mountings. I have two early CP boxes which have top and bottom mounts and I toyed with the idea of removing the top one and bolting a mount to the front. Also I thought of fabricating a battery tray to include a top mount. However FB produced a response from Shaun Omaonaigh in  Australia who offered me most of a box at a very reasonable price although that was doubled by the cost of shipping halfway round the world.. This was without the kickstart case cover and the contents of the kickstart case  Shaun also had a BA body shell with the correct mountings.  I discussed with Fred Baggs the possibility of using parts from the CP box but Fred confirmed that there was little chance of the parts fitting correctly. 

BAPH gearbox as offered

BAPH shell offered

I further bent Fred's ear asking if later BA parts, of which I have a stock, would fit the early shell. The answer was again in the negative.

I gratefully accepted Shaun's offer of the part box and contents and tracked its slow progress as it moved to Perth airport, thence to Coventry and finally here. Foxy alerted me to a kickstart cover on Ebay and I snapped that up. This solved one problem as I found that the kickstart ratchet from the CP box would fit and the selector parts from later BA boxes are the same and I had plenty of those.

Kickstart case cover from Ebay.

Finally Petsch in Germany sent me a Miller dynamo.

Miller dynamo.

I am sure there are many other minor parts to be found but I have now collected a fair proportion of the bits required to assemble another Panther. So let battle commence, onward and upward!

My thanks to Fred Baggs, Ian Fox, Shaun Omaonaigh, Rex Norton and Ralf Petscheleit.

Panther 1935 Model 50. 2. The Mechanical Bits.

 I shall start with the gearbox as that is the easiest to deal with. I don't have one!

The Engine.

The Engine before removal from the frame.

Noticeable in the photos is the absence of any valve gear and the fact that the head is pre 1933. The valve head sticking out is purely ornamental! 

On the bench I lifted off the head, it wan't bolted down, to find the complete absence of a piston. The cylinder is 84mm in diameter plus 60 thou.  The piston should be a two ring Hepolite ref. 3121 which needs a conrod longer than that used with a three-ring piston.

500 cc piston.

With the cylinder off I removed the timing cover to find a full set of timing gears but no half-compression bits. The crankshaft pinion is stamped 14.5 PA although some of the digits are reversed.

Crankshaft pinion stamped 14.5 PA

Timing gears and oil pump.

The magneto drive bush is totally worn out and the sprocket for the mag chain is wrong.

Top, damaged hub and worn bush, Btm left, sprocket as found,
right, as it should be.

 There are no pushrods, tappets, tappet block or pushrod tube. No valves, springs, collets etc.

I separated the cases and removed the main bearings, a pair of LJ11/8 inch R&M ballraces. Splitting the flywheels revealed a knackered big end with the race turning freely in the conrod eye, so loose indeed that it fell out. The rod is a long one and the small end is missing. Because of wear in the big end eye the rod is scrap. 

Late rod, top, Rod as found Btm.

Also scrap is one flywheel which is cracked between the mainshaft taper and the big end taper. As this is a 500cc engine the flywheels have a throw of 90mm rather than the 100mm of the Model 100.

Crack arrowed.

The crank cases are not too bad although one main bearing is loose in the case, it just fell out. The lug on top of the timing chest for attaching the dynamo chain cover has been cut off and the two studs which fix the magneto down are stripped out. 

Top, lug cut off, lower, mag stud holes (repaired)

The timing cover has a corner broken away and a plumbing fitting has been used to plug the oil filler hole.

Broken timing cover.

The rocker box that came with this bike is the correct one, in fact I had sold it to the former owner some years ago. However it does not fit the head supplied with this engine which is pre 1933.

Rocker box.

All in all it is bit of a mess and there is no way I can rebuild it as a 500. I have several new pistons of the correct type but they are all plus 40 thou and I have a replacement long conrod. However I do not have a pair of usable Model 50 flywheels, nor a plus 40 barrel.

Along with not having a gearbox I did not receive any clutch parts. I did though get a primary chaincase, albeit one with the large hole for the boss on the finned sump engine. It does not fit the round sump crankcase. 

Chain case, post 1935 type

I need to explore my stock of bits and see what parts I have, then look at the options. Or maybe just throw it away!